[Writingworkshop] outline / synopsis for novel

Thu Jul 31 14:30:57 EDT 2008

Hi, Dan.

thanks for all th ethoughts.
we should try to talk at length sometime,

Basically, I don't have strong opinions about tabula rasa, at least not in
the story.  That part is just the vehicle that lets me tell the story, as
you note.

I will use as much handwaving as necessary.  If you think I need to explain
why a potentially functional brain woul dnot have a consciousness in it,
I'll try to handle that.

As fo rnon-Darwinian evolution, there is a lot new stuff about that,
especially in th efield of epigenetics.
It's  alittl emisleading, since you're still talking abou tinheritable
traits, but what's happening is that there ar eother aspects to the DNA
molecule (methylation, for instance) that respond to outsadie /
environmental stimuli, but then that changed state is passed on, and can
even be reversed in offspring.

Would love to come sit with you, or do yoga.

talk to you soon.

Adam

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>wrote:

> Wow.  SOOOO much there to talk about.  I want to start with the very
> beginning when you are laying out the idea's.  A little devils
> advocate.
> Do you really believe that the brain is/can be made to be tabula rosa?
>  I understand that its central to the idea's underpinning your story
> that that be the case but it would require a little bit of
> explanation.  Whatever shape of 'innate idea's' you want to play with
> there will be an serious effect on your narrative structure.  Simple
> platonism, Chomskyan grammar , and probably most importantly, the uses
> that people like Steven Pinker et al are making of chomskyan grammar;
> a sort of 'principles and parameters' of moral reasoning.   I have a
> popular science book describing the aims, methods, etc called 'Moral
> Minds' if you would like to borrow it.  Something else just occured to
> me, there is a british philosopher who currently holds Wittgensteins
> old chair at Cambridge, his name is Simon Blackburn.  If you go to
> itunes U and look up a lecture titled "How are we to think of Human
> Nature?" you pull up a 43 minute lecture he gives as an opener for the
> Duke Provost Lecture series.  Now my grasp of genetics is ....
> well.... essentially non existent beyond the most basic of idea's but
> for someone who knows better this lecture might prove TRULY
> interesting to your story.  Blackburn essentially takes the entire
> program of "evolutionary psychology" out by its philosophical knees
> and in the process mentions something to the effect that recent
> developments in genetics might herald a revival of Lamarkianism. I
> don't not pretend to be able to evaluate his claims but i have read
> all of one and pieces of several other of his books I think he's a top
> shelf philosopher.  So there's that.  I'm going to reread the synopsis
> a couple of times today and respond again later tonight, I think I
> told you at Neale's going away party that I've begun a regular zen
> practice and yoga practice. I'm interested in what you mean to do with
> that in a narrative sense and how you would answer some of the moral
> questions that would come up for a mystic in that situation.
> and in case you can't tell, I really like the idea.  Alot.  Pretty
> excited.  I sincerely hope you flesh it out.
>
>
> On 7/28/08, Adam Holland <adam.holland at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for taking the time to read and comment so quickly, Neale.  You're
> an
> > inspiration as always
> > I've thought about both the sex aspect and the taboo aspect.  I hadn't
> > thought of getting all Studio 54 with it.  :)
> >
> > As for breaking your body while training or racing the idea is that as
> soon
> > as the race is over, you're handing the body off to its purchaser, so
> you'd
> > want to avoid any permanent damage.  But there is probably something
> there.
> >
> > I sure hope I can make the action adrenaline pumping, and not dry, or
> > overblown.
> >
> > You're absolutely correct about th wish fulfillment.  the key being that
> > it's only available if you're willing to keep starting from scratch. Sort
> of
> > the opposite of Tithonus, who asked for immortality, but forgot to ask
> for
> > youth, so he stays alive and continues to age until he turns into a
> > grasshopper.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the food for thought.
> >
> > AH
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Neale Morison <neale at nealemorison.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I really like this. A kind of SF motivational for the thinking person,
> a
> > thought-experiment that shows that while the body is important, the mind
> is
> > the key. The way you get the main point of the story to tie with the
> > climactic moment in a race is excellent. Lots of visual and visceral
> > excitement, adrenaline-pumping heart pounding action, then a Zen moment
> to
> > fling us over the line. Some great wish-fulfillment, with the live
> forever,
> > be young again, get your second chance. Nice defamiliarization with the
> > clone tech grafted onto normal life.
> > >
> > > There are some side issues to the idea that struck me. There are bound
> to
> > be some kind of right-to-lifers who think it says somewhere in Leviticus
> > that you can't replace a mind, even on a clone. And if it's possible to
> > replace your body, you can afford to break it in the final race, if not
> in
> > training. Another barrier removed. And it's kind of seventies of me to
> say
> > this, but there would surely be some weird sex opportunities with clones.
> Go
> > fuck yourself takes on a totally new meaning. But, you know, don't muddy
> the
> > purity of the original concept.
> > >
> > > Stories on somewhat related concepts:
> > > Kurt Vonnegut piece in Welcome to the Monkey House: Unready to Wear? -
> > people discover how to slip out of their bodies and exist independently.
> > > Never Let Me Go, (2005), novel by British author Kazuo Ishiguro. Just
> read
> > it. Amazing book. Clones but no tech to speak of.
> > >
> > > The POV question is interesting. It would be fun to experiment with a
> > clone blank brain POV. Stream of unconsciousness.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the outline is inspiring and I would love to see the book and
> the
> > movie.
> > >
> > > Neale
> > >
> > > Adam Holland wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi, everyone.
> > > I finally got off my ass and started trying to put some stuff down on
> > paper.
> > > So far it is bordering on stream of consciousness, but something is
> better
> > than nothing, and I can always refine it.
> > > Can't edit blank pages.
> > >
> > > I attach the long-ish outline I wrote for Joe last fall.
> > > I think it pretty much covers everything I'd like to accomplish, in
> terms
> > of the themes and ideas I'm trying to express.
> > > If you want, I can get you what Joe had to say about it, but just like
> in
> > workshop, I'd prefer to hear your ideas first.
> > >
> > > I'm interested in anything anyone has to say, but will say up front
> that
> > my main stumbling block right now is the overall structure.
> > >
> > > I do not think it can be told in one narrative voice, (althought
> sometimes
> > I think it could work in first person, like a detective story)  but am
> not
> > sure what the multiple voices would or should be, and whose.
> > >  I think each interwoven thread will probabaly have a different voice,
> but
> > again, whose?
> > >
> > > some of this is defintiely going to be in first person/ the
> protsgonist.
> > > But some could conceivably be first person, someone else, like a
> reporter
> > or something, or the guy's wife.
> > > There's probably a place for some 3rd person omniscient as well.
> > >
> > > So, thoughts on that would be especially welcome.
> > >
> > > also, how much detail you think is necessary about the tech making this
> > possible.  I'm leaning towards almost none, but it could be fun to talk
> > about it a little.
> > >
> > > finally, I am not sure from how far into the future past th events in
> > question to tell the story, if at all.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to hearing what you have to say,
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of
> > grace. No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1574 - Release Date:
> 7/25/2008
> > 4:27 PM
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Neale Morison
> > > neale at nealemorison.com
> > > http://www.nealemorison.com
> > > 35 Frazer St, Leichhardt NSW 2040
> > >
> > > +61 417 661 427
> > >
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> >
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> >
> > --
> > The anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of
> > grace.
> >
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-- 
The anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of
grace.
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